Comments on: Choreography, they say, does not replace articulation; therefore bees cannot be said to have a syntax.

By: sw

sw — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:23:35 +0000

hi alisha, thanks for keeping this going. i like the idea of animals as aliens… in our own homes.

By: Daniel p

Daniel p — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:42:13 +0000

So when a bulldog learns to skateboard is it a basis for some sort of "shared language?" Let us suppose we began sniffing each other's butts. What would the bulldog think? Let us not forget that language/communication is, on the most basic of levels, a transference of meaning. A skateboarding bulldog is not, I would suggest, communicating a subscription to any specific culture or niche. The bulldog is not expressing a desire to identify with or utilize the tools of transportation, entertainment or athleticism just as the bulldog does not use a dog bowl because it likes a clean house. This is not to say that the bulldog does not comprehend the skateboard or the ability to skateboard as a tool. On the contrary, I would posit that he/she, and all other "animals" for that matter, are fully aware, at least in some capacity, of mechanical evolution and communication is nothing if not mechanical. This is evidenced by the fact that I am writing this 'through' the internet: the latest means of communicating; a transference of meaning utilizing the least amount of energy. So what then is happening when the bulldog, who's named Tyson by the way, learns to ride a skateboard? Is it mimicry or is it something else? Is it play? If so, does a bulldog's perception of such an activity have similarities to our own? Does Tyson utilize play as a means to learn through interactions with its environment? A dog is on the plane. In the distance a rabbit leaps out of a hole, unaware of the dog's presence. The unlucky rabbit is spotted and the dog bolts after it, catches the prey, and kills it. This is instinct, known due to millions of years of evolution of both hunting and communicating hunting techniques to offspring. A boy and a dog are in the park. The boy throws a ball and the dog retrieves it. This is play; a practice made useful for and by the instinct to catch fleeing prey. Once the dog learns to associate an inanimate object (ball, stick, dad's shoe) with prey and, hence, learns by association (I.e. a transference of meaning) could we not say this is a form of communicating with the boy, it's pack, a desire to hunt, feed, and survive? Things get jumbled I'm sure. I mean, though I did reference the internet as the latest example of the evolution of communication (based on its lack of resource consumption, at least locally), you are sitting right next to me on this couch. Damnit Alisha! What are you trying to communicate with your blog? Or are you playing? Am I playing too? Why can't we actually talk about this like people with mouths and functioning tongues? Can you smell my feet from where you're sitting?

By: Ariel Climer

Ariel Climer — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:48:46 +0000

On another note, Stephan’s neighbor, a middle aged nurse who lives alone and who often tries to entertain us with boring stories, once tried to show me a picture that her sister sent to her via cell phone of Cesar Millan. She was so excited and was pushing her phone to my face, “Look, look my sister met the dog whisperer, Cesar Chavez!” I didn’t know who Cesar Millan was at the time, so I thought, maybe there is a possibility that he shares the name with the beloved farmer and social justice patriarch. But then I thought, no way.

her: “You’ve never heard of Cesar Chavez…??!”

me:“well, no, I mean, I guess not.”

.…

Maybe animals understanding our signs is us understanding each other’s choreography. And we can understand choreography across species if we try because of cause and effect, but for some reason, sounds are native and singular.

By: Matthew

Matthew — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:28:44 +0000

Lion colloquialisms! Dolphin suicides!

By: Alisha

Alisha — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:25:45 +0000

Ariel–
I think mimicry is where humans and animals begin to build some sort of shared language based on common environment. Humans and animals can certainly learn to understand signs that the other makes–is this the same as understanding each other’s language? I think it’s a new relationship between sounds or signals and certain shared objects that necessarily involve the other (human or animal). Also, each animal is different, so parrots may communicate in ways that are closer to our own than, say, a fish.

By: Alisha

Alisha — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:08:33 +0000

“like the absence of moral framing”

totally.

cesar millan is rad. animal cognition is such a hot topic these days, and i think he is a pretty amazing introduction to the real questions of the field for most people.

By: Ariel

Ariel — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:58:54 +0000

I can see how animals, between each other, have a language all their own. And my cat is definitely an alien, but what about animals making human-like sounds? Like parrots imitating. Do they do it to please us or get us to do something for them? Or just because they can?

When our cat Sprout wants to go outside or eat, she will stand by her food or the door and make a meowing noise that is more like a human voice than a normal meow. It is shorter and more guttural. Do you think animals will try to mimic humans the way they mimic other animals (e.g. starlings, mockingbirds, etc.)? I think animals kind of do and in the same way we mimic them to get them to come to us.

By: tony

tony — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:55:42 +0000

woah, good topic. have you watched the dog whisperer? dog psychology. yeah, animal perception seems so foreign, like the absence of moral framing, my mom’s cat is walking around chasing a fly right now. cesar millan talks about dogs’s incredible ability to live completely in the moment. or orangutans’s uncanny flash memory, i saw this thing where a monkey plays a memory game and TOTALLY kicks every little kid’s ass.